Atlanta Gas Shortage

re: Atlanta Gas Shortage

donaldoconnorx — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:38:57 GMT

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re: Atlanta Gas Shortage

ATLOutsider — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:41:59 GMT

I am not from Atlanta, but have been there many times. I am always amazed at how suburban it is, and I've always wondered when the ill effects of that unrealistic and unsustainable lifestyle would be felt.

Smug? I hardly felt the OPs tone was smug. Smug is living in suburbia "because I want to" ignoring the ill effects it has on society, as long as you're doing OK. Smug is expecting the government to protect your "right to cheap gas" when the ill effects of your choices start to roll in. Smug is constantly deriding city folk and lowering their property values by exaggerating every stereotype out there about urban living. Smug is thinking that transportation options need to cater to you, rather than choosing a lifestyle which provides you with better transportation options.

re: Atlanta Gas Shortage

saracheshire — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:00:53 GMT

Drew you do have a good point. Yes, a big part of our gas problem was due to a decrease in gas supply and because of the gas requirements of our city...requiring cleaner gas, but again that is probably partly caused by Atlanta's struggle with air quality which comes from cars driving.

And maybe I did exaggerate, and it is perfectly wonderful to have a nice home and yard and safety. I don't necessarily mean we need to have an all out transit up in the burbs, but a commuter train or more commuter bus options would be great, especially to your point about only needing to drive 30 minutes to work.

And, gas ran out intown too, so the problem wasn't isolated in the burbs as first suggested, but I will say that I didn't notice crazy long lines and people overdoing and topping off in the city, where maybe that was more common further out.

If I was smug, it happens sometimes...I don't mind how you live, as long as it doesn't have negative impacts on a number of other people. If it was the case that suburban hysteria (where you have to admit people drive more) was affecting gas supply in my neighborhood, then I'm going to be annoyed. If the 30 minute commute is done by enough people in cars and I can't jog outside because of code red or the kid down the street has asthma attacks, then that is a problem as well.

PDiggity, thank you too for reminding us too that even if this wasn't about suburbia or intown or transit development (and I haven't dug up evidence yet to say that crime comes as a result of rail)...it is about Atlanta's dependence on gas AND it is about those people who have easy access to commute alternatives (carpooling, bus, train) and who don't take it. If you live in the burbs then fine. But those who complain and perhaps were rushing out to stock up on gas when they could have found a different commute, then that is a problem.

I will have more facts next time, but this is a blog and it is about opinions and not necessary a researched essay with every post.

re: Atlanta Gas Shortage

Drew — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:46:51 GMT

PDiggity,

I'll comment on your points below:

1. How many millions of dollars per mile is light rail public transit again? How many years would it take to get even one Marta line into Cobb, for instance? How many millions is GA's budget currently in the red? It all sounds good, but not only do the current suburban residents not want it, but there is no capital, cooperation, or political will to get it done. And sure, there is some movement towards "smart" communities, and migration back to the cities, but "suburbs are drying up economically"? - hardly. Residential construction has slowed down, but the economies in most of the metro counties such as Gwinett and Cobb are still faring well.

2. Anecdotal evidence of your trip to grannies is not convincing. Your statement may be true in the outer exurbs, but not in developed suburban areas. There are plenty of groceries, restaurants, churches and schools within 5-10 minutes of the developed suburbs of Cobb, north Fulton and Gwinett. If you live 30 minutes from these conveniences, it's by choice, not necessity. Finally, I never advocated "dumb development", or development of any kind in my response.

3. "Living in the suburbs will soon become a laughable proposition." That's a ridiculous statement. Half the professionals in my neighborhood work from home, as I do. This trend will continue, making the commute issue even less of a factor. Further, the original post was about gas, and it's impact on intown/suburbia. Personal transportation is changing rapidly in this country, and the higher gas prices go, the faster the changes will take place, on many fronts: hybrids, and plug-in hybrid vehicles, Electric vehicles, compressed natural gas, and hydrogen, and biofuels. Ethanol now accounts for almost 7% of our domestic fuel supply (9B gallons per year out of 140B total gallons), and the supply and technology is advancing rapidly. All of these will combine to make gas availability and volatility less of a factor in the U.S. in the next 5-10 years.

re: Atlanta Gas Shortage

PDiggity — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:28:51 GMT

I agree with Drew that the tone of your post was a bit smug, but I completely disagree with all of what Drew said. On your three "rebuttals":

1. Public transit would work GREAT in the suburbs. Look at crowded places like NYC, DC, etc. where commuter trains and buses bring in millions of people a day without their cars. And we all know the reason politicians voted to keep mass transit out of the suburbs...straight up racism. People didn't want the "wrong element" to come into their white surbuban paradises. The irony is that these suburbs/exurbs are now drying up economically b/c of foreclosures and high gas prices, which means more and more rich folks are moving back in town to live among the same people they wanted to keep out of their areas.

2. Houses in the suburbs ARE 30 minutes from anything. Whenever I visit my grannie in the north atlanta suburbs, I'm struck by the fact that it takes a long, traffic-filled drive to even get to the nearest grocery store. It's just no way to live. That's why "smart development" (as opposed to the "dumb development" you support) is the way to go. Build housing within walking distance of everything you need, and everyone ones. Higher property values, better health, fewer cars, etc.

3. Granted, the gas shortage wasn't caused by sprawl. But the shortage does reveal how suburban Atlantans are totally at the mercy of gas supplies, which as we've over the past year, are going to be more volatile in the years to come. Prices swings and long lines will be the norm, and it's only gonna get worse as the rest of the world eats up more and more oil. Living in the suburbs will soon become a laughable proposition.

re: Atlanta Gas Shortage

Drew — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:08:15 GMT

Sara,

Interesting take on the situation. Unfortunately, most of it is wrong. To your points:

1. Public transit may work well intown, but is either not an option at all, or a poor option at best in many of Atlanta's suburbs. Most of us in the suburbs are glad to deal with a gas shortage once every five years vs. dealing with the "urban spread and urban crime" you describe EVERY year.

2. You're right, there is a difference in the lifestyle in the city and out of it...and your smug attitude is annoying, and obvious. Suburbanites don't "live 30 minutes from anything". Usually, the only thing they are 30 minutes from is work. But beyond that, I, and others like me, live here for many reasons. The primary one is that I want a home and a yard. We have 3/4 acre and 5,000 sq ft with woods and a cul-de-sac for my 3 boys to play, without fear of drive-by shootings and crack deals. I bet I couldn't afford a 2-bedroom condo in midtown for what I got this place for. Do people in the city even think of these things??

3. It's not the "sprawl" and the cars. Did you read any of the articles?? Atlanta area fuel terminals did not have a large reserve to pull from after Hurricane Ike shut down the refineries. That reserve was rationed out after the gas stopped flowing, primarily from the Colonial Pipeline into the metro area. The problem is also compounded by Atlata's "boutique" fuel blend that is meant to improve smog conditions here in the area, and can only be produced by certain refineries.

Next time you post, you need to work on your facts and your attitude.